STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
OK. We heard Barbara talk about Republicans who want to restore a deduction for state and local income taxes. The lawmakers insisting on that include our next guest, Mike Lawler of New York. Representative Lawler, welcome to the program.
MIKE LAWLER: Thanks for having me, Steve.
INSKEEP: Why is the SALT deduction, as it's called, such a big deal?
LAWLER: Well, seven years ago when the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was first passed, the SALT cap - the $10,000 cap on your ability to deduct your state and local taxes on your federal income tax return - was used as a pay-for for other provisions within the bill. It is slated to expire at the end of the year, and therefore, it would return to unlimited ability to deduct your state and local taxes, which is what it was for over a hundred years. And so this has been a major issue for districts like mine, where we pay among the highest taxes in the country. And so I'm fighting to provide tax relief to middle-class families all across my district and in areas like mine. And so that's what this fight is about.
INSKEEP: This pits red states against blue states to a large extent, doesn't it? Because it is states like New York or California that tend to have higher taxes, and a state like Texas and some others may not have an income tax at all.
LAWLER: Correct. And some of the argument by my red state colleagues is that they don't want to subsidize bad blue state policies. But the fact is, New York is a donor state like California. We send more money to the federal government than we receive. And frankly, some of these red states that don't necessarily have, you know, high tax burdens do not send as much money to the federal government and receive far more support from the Feds. And so we are fighting to get a adequate fix for this, and that's why we're in the middle of a negotiation with the speaker and leadership and the administration.
INSKEEP: I want to ask about the Medicaid cuts here. A lot of Republican lawmakers have said, we don't want to cut benefits. We want to have - find some savings. We don't want to cut your benefits. The Congressional Budget Office, as we heard from Barbara Sprunt, says that 8.6 million people would likely lose benefits under this bill. There's a nonprofit, Medicaid Matters, that says some of those people are in your district. Do you accept that people would lose Medicaid benefits under this bill?
LAWLER: No. The changes that I have supported have been focused on eligibility verification, citizenship verification and work requirements. You know, ultimately, you have over 3 million people on the expansion population who are able-bodied adults without dependents who should be working. Whether it be at a job, getting an education, you know, volunteering. The fact is, Medicaid is a means-tested program that is there to help those in need. If you're able-bodied, you should be trying to get a job and ultimately either be able to purchase health insurance on the open market or get insurance through your employer.
INSKEEP: I think I'm hearing you say that you believe that people will lose Medicaid benefits, but you're arguing that they don't deserve the Medicaid benefits. Is that right?
LAWLER: Like I said, the objective is to protect these vital programs for eligible recipients. But if people are gaming the system, no, they should not be receiving benefits, you know. And certainly, for able-bodied adults - they should be working. That's something Bill Clinton championed in the '90s.
INSKEEP: I want to come back to this matter of the SALT taxes that you've said is - it's a nonstarter for you. It's a no-vote for you if you do not get the SALT tax deduction restored. I've been thinking about the president's approach to this and the House leadership's approach to this - putting everything in one bill, one big, beautiful bill, as the president has said. He's essentially demanding that you vote yes or no on the president's whole agenda, even if you don't like some of it. Are you, in fact, ready to vote no on the president's whole agenda if you don't get this SALT deduction that you need?
LAWLER: Well, that's often true of any legislation, right? There's going to be things you agree with and things you may not agree with, and you weigh all of that. But as I've said for over two years since coming to Congress, if there was not a fix for SALT, I would not support any tax bill that came before me. I've been loud and clear about that. Leadership has heard me say it repeatedly for over two years, and I've made that point to the president directly.
So, you know, this is a negotiation, and you work through legislation. That is the process. It is a legislative exercise, and that requires negotiation, and you're not going to get everything you want out of a negotiation. But you have to be willing to engage, and that's what I've been doing.
INSKEEP: Mike Lawler is a Republican lawmaker from upstate New York. Thanks so much.
LAWLER: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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