ADRIAN MA, HOST:
Long before Hawaii became the 50th state, long before the Hawaiian Islands were even considered a single entity, the islands were made up of multiple kingdoms. This period of history, marked by tribal war and colonization, isn't well known by most Americans, and that is what makes the new Apple TV drama "Chief Of War" unusual.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "CHIEF OF WAR")
JASON MOMOA: (As Ka'iana) They need me there.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Yes. Your prophecy. As far as I've seen, Ka'iana, men of every color do unspeakable things for their gods and the prophecies they believe in.
MOMOA: (As Ka'iana) I must go back.
MA: The show takes place in the late 1700s. And in this scene, the warrior chief Ka'iana, played by Jason Momoa - he vows to return to the islands which are being roiled by conflict. Momoa co-created the show with his friend and the executive producer and writer, Thomas Pa'a Sibbett. For Momoa and Sibbett, "Chief Of War" is a passion project more than a decade in the making. And here to tell us how it finally came together and some of the challenges they faced along the way is Thomas Pa'a Sibbett. Thomas, thanks so much for being here with WEEKEND EDITION.
THOMAS PA'A SIBBETT: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you.
MA: I understand that the idea to do a show taking place in this era had been percolating in your brain for years and years, so tell us about the original inspiration for this.
SIBBETT: I mean, you're right. It is something that had been going on for a long time. I mean, you know, I'm Hawaiian. We talk about, you know, our stories and our history, and it's just something that, you know, is part of everyday conversation for Hawaii people. Grandpa talks about warriors, aunties talk about the strength of women, and cousins reenact this stuff. You know, we play around. It's really just kind of a thing that's present with us.
So it's always been something that we've never seen on film before. And Jason and I both being Hawaiian, in the middle of everything that we're working on, eventually, we're gonna be talking about some of these things and bring them up with each other, you know? So the original inspiration really could be pointed back to childhood. Commercially, it would make sense to tell the story of Kamehameha, who is in our story, is in the show, but...
MA: King Kamehameha, who is the - sort of the monarch that came to rule the united Hawaiian Islands?
SIBBETT: Yes, yes. So Kamehameha is the most famous Hawaiian around the world. If people have heard anything about Hawaii or anything about Hawaiian history, Kamehameha is going to be the person that they know. But in the days of Kamehameha, the most famous Hawaiian around the world was Ka'iana, Jason's character, because he was a world traveler. He was the only person that people spoke about because of his interaction with captains and crews, and it just felt like a good character to get into. Kind of like a King Arthur, Lancelot situation, you know - he would be the Lancelot of Hawaii.
MA: Can you tell me about the decision to center the story around Ka'iana and not King Kamehameha? There's a version of this that might have centered around him instead. So why do it the other way?
SIBBETT: The truth is, is we figured that is the most commercial version. That's - if Hollywood was going to tell the story, that was the story they were going to tell. But from a Hawaiian point of view, see, Kamehameha has such a reverence, just his story, that it just felt like there was nothing we could do to where we would ever get it right because every family has some connection to Kamehameha, and it's either good or bad, right? He's a divisive character.
MA: He's a hero to some and maybe a villain to others?
SIBBETT: Yes, exactly. We just knew that getting into that, even though it's a great story - we just knew there was no way to quite get it right because if - you do have to create - your main characters have to have flaws. They have to have failures, and it was just really tricky to think of, as a main character, how do we present his storyline? So I had - like, a light went off in my head that said, we can tell the story of unification. We just tilt our focus a little bit to the right, and you hit a different chief. And then Ka'iana was like - it's perfect, 'cause Jason is so worldly.
MA: There's the kind of reflection there and maybe a little bit less baggage that comes with Ka'iana as a storyteller.
SIBBETT: Yeah, he's lesser well-known, and so you can dirty him up a little bit. You know, you can drag him through the mud. You can let him face really difficult decisions. And realistically, even his positioning - I mean, someone who travels to the outside world could be infected by it, you know? And so his character really does hold this weight, this worry of what is coming, but at the same time, that knowledge inevitably is going to eat you up, you know?
MA: Most of the first couple episodes of the show are in Hawaiian. There are subtitles. But this is not a language that most of the cast, I understand, came in speaking, including Jason Momoa.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "CHIEF OF WAR")
MOMOA: (As Ka'iana, speaking Hawaiian).
MA: It sounds like Jason picked it up pretty well. Why was it so important for you to feature the Hawaiian language in this show?
SIBBETT: We just knew that if you remove the language, then you remove the reality. And it's also really - I just think it's important that we're kind of in this place of representation. I feel like audiences are very savvy nowadays, and they want authenticity, and they want real. And if you can provide it and give it to them, then we really should.
I know there's people out there that will struggle and have a hard time to watch the show because it's subtitled, but people want to be represented correctly. You know, like, we want Hawaii to be represented correctly 'cause, you know, make no mistake, from our point of view, the image of a Hawaiian that the world has seen was not our image to give, you know? It's been part of a carefully packaged, planned presentation on what a Hawaiian is to keep Hawaii enjoyable or palatable to come and visit for tourism.
And not that tourism is bad. It's just that we as Hawaiians have an image of ourselves, and we just thought it would be important to show one aspect of what that is. If we were to present something that everything's authentic except for the language, it just felt like it would be wrong.
MA: In making a historical drama, is there any tension for you in making sure things are authentic and historically accurate and just trying to be entertaining to people?
SIBBETT: I mean, I'm not sure if tension is the word, but it's a balance, and I think it's an important balance, though, you know, because as creatives, as storytellers, we have to know how to do that. We have to know how to present something that's going to be consumed as entertainment. You know what I mean? Like, that's my job. Like, realistically, that's my job before being a, you know, cultural practitioner or a historian or somebody that wants to share culture.
We were very careful. We never actually pitched this as a Hawaiian story. We pitched it as a really good story that just happens to take place in Hawaii. You have to build it in a way to where if you removed all of that, it still works. It's still really good. It becomes a Hawaiian experience only through nuance and texture. That's it.
So that's the balance. It's trying to figure that out. So yes, as a storyteller, I may have chosen to, you know, embellish something, but I always want to make sure that whatever you're seeing on screen can be pointed to something real.
MA: We've been talking with Thomas Pa'a Sibbett who's co-creator, writer and executive producer of the new Apple TV+ series "Chief Of War." Thomas, thanks again for joining us.
SIBBETT: Oh, appreciate it, man. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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