TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. Up next in our archive series R&B, rockabilly and early rock 'n' roll, we have an interview with rhythm and blues singer LaVern Baker. Baker was one of Atlantic's first big success stories, with hits like "Jim Dandy," "Tweedlee Dee" and "Bumble Bee." I spoke with her in 1991, the year she was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. It named her 1956 recording "Jim Dandy" one of the 500 songs that shaped rock 'n' roll. Let's hear it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "JIM DANDY")
LAVERN BAKER: (Singing) Jim Dandy to the rescue, Jim Dandy to the rescue, Jim Dandy to the rescue. Go, Jim Dandy. Go, Jim Dandy. Jim Dandy on a mountaintop, 30,000 feet to drop. Spied a lady on a runaway horse. Aha, that's right, of course. Jim Dandy to the rescue. Go, Jim Dandy. Go, Jim Dandy. Jim Dandy met a girl named Sue. She was feeling little kind of blue. Jim Dandy, he's the kind of guy never liked to see a little girl cry. Jim Dandy to the rescue. Go, Jim Dandy. Go, Jim Dandy. Jim Dandy to the rescue, Jim Dandy to the rescue, Jim Dandy to the rescue. Go, Jim Dandy, go.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: LaVern Baker, welcome to FRESH AIR.
BAKER: Thank you. It's a pleasure.
GROSS: Now, you just performed last weekend at the Village Gate, a club in New York. What did you sing? What's in your repertoire now?
BAKER: Well, right now, the people are so interested in hearing my old recordings. So that's basically what I'm doing with a few other songs. But I'm putting my act together for California, which I will be doing other songs to show the versatility of my voice. But the people, I know, God bless them. They just want to hear what they like, so that's what I do here.
GROSS: Now, in the 20 years or so that you weren't performing in the States, you were living in the Philippines?
BAKER: Yes, I'm the show director for the United States Marine Corps. I book all the shows in the club, and on Fridays and Saturdays, I sing myself. And for the happy hour, you know, I laugh and talk with the guys, go around, you know. It makes them feel good and keeps up the morale. That is my job, to make everybody laugh and happy.
GROSS: What kind of other talent did you book for the shows?
BAKER: Well, I booked all Filipino talent. And we book whatever I think is suiting for the club. You know, if they've had too much singing, then I'll bring in, like, acrobats and tumblers and stuff like that. It's whatever I feel that were needed, you know? And it's like, if the ships are coming in, then I booked the show full of beautiful girls, 'cause the guys don't want to see no guys, you know? So when the carriers are coming in, it's quite wild there. You know, we have sometimes like 8,000 guys at one time, you know, in there.
GROSS: Wow.
BAKER: Yeah.
GROSS: Well, let's listen to another one of your hit records from the 1950s before we talk some more. And why don't we listen to "Bumble Bee"?
BAKER: Oh, wow.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: I think, you know, this is kind of a novelty record. But it's a wonderful recording.
BAKER: Yes, I'm singing it now. And I feel so very, very funny singing that.
GROSS: Why do you feel funny about it?
BAKER: Well, because I was, you know, very, very young. And at the time, it fitted me, you know? It was good. And I had a big hit with the kids. But now I'm much older. I feel funny singing it, you know? But I'll do it, you know, I do it. And I'm surprised that my voice can reach the squeaky part now. I still can do it, so I do it. You know, if someone asks for it, I'll do it.
GROSS: OK, let's listen to LaVern Baker. And this is "Bumble Bee."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BUMBLE BEE")
BAKER: (Singing) I'm going to have to put you down. You've been treating me like a clown. You know you've hurt me once before. You'll never hurt me anymore. Shoo-ee, you hurt me like a bee, a bumble bee, a evil bumble bee. I gave you love as sweet as honey, my life, my soul and all my money. You didn't seem to realize you had a home in paradise. Shoo-ee, you hurt me like a bee, a bumblebee, a evil bumblebee. Don't you know I cry night after night? Just one kiss before you go. Don't ever come back no more. Now, baby, there's no need of crying. I'm sick and tired of...
GROSS: That's my guest LaVern Baker, as recorded in 1960. Now, LaVern Baker, you were born in Chicago, and you started performing in your teens.
BAKER: Yes.
GROSS: And when you started performing in clubs around Chicago, you were known as Little Miss Sharecropper. Who gave you that name?
BAKER: Regretfully, yes. Some guy - well, it was a long story. It's like - at the big Club DeLisa, which was the place during those early '40s, '50s in Chicago, and they had a singer there named Little Miss Cornshuck (ph). She was a great singer, and she used to come out with a little, like, Bo Peep outfit on with her little basket and ribbons in her hair. And she was, oh, quite famous. Her name was the talk of Chicago. And she got on the wrong path, you know, and wasn't able to perform.
So then they were looking for someone to take her place, and I got the job. And the next thing I knew, they had put these little costumes and ribbons and baskets in my hand, and they called me Little Miss Sharecropper because they couldn't use Cornshuck, you know, and sharecropper was related to that. But about two years after I left, I hurried up and got rid of it (laughter).
GROSS: Did you protest when they wanted to outfit you that way and...
BAKER: No, I didn't. You know, you got to get your foot in the door before you can say anything in regards to what you do, you know. I wasn't strong. I just wanted to get started, and I didn't care how, you know, as long as it was legit, you know. But, you know, as I got a little older, I wanted to change, and I did change. And I made it. I went to Basin Street East with Louis Armstrong more than one time, you know, and I played Vegas. And these are rooms and things that I could not get when I was in rock 'n' roll. So I had to change my act, you see.
GROSS: Now, you were one of the first Black singers to cross over to a white teenage audience...
BAKER: Yes.
GROSS: ...In the 1950s. Was there a conscious attempt at Atlantic Records to give you certain kind of material or to change your stage act in any way to help you cross over?
BAKER: No. My - the music - Atlantic always picked my music. Ahmet and Jerry at the time, they always picked, you know, the songs that they wanted me to sing or they thought that would be best for me. And I never argued at that particular time. I'll fight now, (laughter) but I didn't argue then. And - because they knew what they wanted, you know? But coincidentally, the things that they gave me I enjoyed doing at that time. So I gave my best at it, you know. And sometimes they would come in the studio and play different things and holler in the background, you know, to make it better, you know, to sound like more people.
GROSS: They'd holler in the background on the record?
BAKER: Yeah.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BAKER: Yeah, yeah.
GROSS: Which record did they do that on?
BAKER: Quite a few. They'd sing with the - we had the - at that time, we had a group called - a backup group called The Cues. And a lot of things - he'd come in, and he showed them. He'd sing with them to show them what he wanted, you see. And this is the way we worked back then. You know, we had a small room, and it was - like, they were on one side, and we were on the other, you know. And we made millions of hits up there in that little hole that we were in.
GROSS: Now, I want to play "Tweedlee Dee." But, you know, the voices that come in at the beginning, they're kind of square-sounding voices, don't you think? The...
BAKER: Yes.
GROSS: Yeah.
BAKER: These are The Cues.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BAKER: And one of The Cues is the one that wrote "Tweedlee Dee." Mr. Winfield Scott, he's the one that wrote it. And that is the longest recording session I've ever had in my life.
GROSS: What made it so long?
BAKER: We did 52 takes.
GROSS: Whoa. You're kidding.
BAKER: (Laughter) No, I kid you not.
GROSS: How come? What went wrong?
BAKER: Well, he wasn't satisfied. It was something missing. And during the break - we know they always give us a little break for tea or whatever to rest our voices, you know. And I did - I was kidding with it, and I said, hump, bee-ump, bump, bump, like that. And Ahmet said, that's it. That's it.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BAKER: And we (laughter) - that's how that got in there, you know. It was just something missing that he wasn't - and he's like that now, you know? He knows what he like. And if he don't hear it, he'll keep pushing, you know.
GROSS: Well, why don't we listen to "Tweedlee Dee"? And this is my guest LaVern Baker.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TWEEDLEE DEE")
THE CUES: (Singing) Tweedlee dee. Tweedlee dee. Tweedlee dee. Tweedlee dee.
BAKER: (Singing) Tweedlee, tweedlee, tweedlee dee. I'm as happy as can be. Jiminy Cricket, Jiminy Jack. You make my heart go clickety-clack. Tweedlee, tweedlee, tweedlee dee. Tweedlee, tweedlee, tweedlee dot. How you going to keep that honey you got? Hunkies, hunkies, fishes bite. I'm going to see my honey tonight. Tweedlee, tweedlee, tweedlee dot. Tweedlee dee, tweedlee dee.
GROSS: That's LaVern Baker, as recorded in 1955, a song that went up to No. 14 on the charts. A big hit for you. Now, how did you feel when you were given the song? Did you like the song?
BAKER: Yes and no.
GROSS: What was the yes and what was the no?
BAKER: Well, it just didn't make any sense to me, OK, you know? And...
GROSS: The lyric? Or...
BAKER: Yeah, the lyric. The lyric. The music was OK. We had to find the music to really fit it, you know. So I came up with a suggestion of Brazil (ph), if you notice...
GROSS: At the beginning, yeah.
BAKER: Yeah, (vocalizing). So, you know, and that's why I was so upset when Georgia Gibbs covered my record, because we worked very hard to stay away from the main track of Brazil - just a little tastes of it, you know. And then she recorded my song word for word. I was very upset with this because she used my arrangement. Use your own arrangement, you know.
GROSS: Georgia Gibbs' cover of your record went up to No. 2 on the charts.
BAKER: I know. It was so many people had - they thought they had the original, and they didn't. They had hers.
GROSS: Now, she was a white singer...
BAKER: Yes.
GROSS: ...Recording your hit.
BAKER: Yeah.
GROSS: Were there stations that would play the white singer's version of it that wouldn't play yours?
BAKER: Oh, yeah. And there were some of them that played hers, and after they found out she wasn't the original, they wouldn't play it anymore, you know. This happened in the whole state of Illinois and Michigan.
GROSS: We're listening to my 1991 interview with LaVern Baker. We'll hear more of it after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAY CHARLES' "JOY RIDE")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with rhythm and blues singer LaVern Baker. She was one of Atlantic Records' first big success stories with hits like "Jim Dandy," "Bumble Bee" and "Tweedlee Dee."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: In the 1950s, you recorded an entire album of Bessie Smith songs.
BAKER: Oh, I loved it. Now, that's a recording date I enjoyed. I really did enjoy it. I love the songs. And after I listened to Bessie Smith, and even now that I'm older and when I do her numbers, I sound more like her, you know. I was told that by the bass player and some of the guys who actually worked with Bessie Smith that were still living. Atlantic got some of the original guys that played with her, you know, and they told me, said, man, you really sound like Bessie. You know, I just had one of those big growling voices, I guess, you know, and it's worse now that I'm older.
GROSS: (Laughter) Well, it's a great album, and it was reissued recently on compact disc.
BAKER: Yeah.
GROSS: So let's play something off of it. This is the opening track, and this is "Pigfoot."
BAKER: Oh.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME A PIGFOOT")
BAKER: Twenty-five cents? No, honey. I wouldn't pay 25 cents to go in nowhere. Listen here. (Singing) Up in Harlem every Saturday night, when the highbrows get together, it's just too tight. They all congregate at the all-night strut. And what they do is tut-tut-tut. Old Hannah Brown from way 'cross town gets full of corn and starts breaking them down. Just at the break of day, you can hear old Hannah say give me a pig foot - yeah - and a bottle of beer. Send me 'gain, I don't care. I feel just like I want to clown. Give the piano player a drink because he's bringing me down. He's got a rhythm - yeah - when he stomps his feet. He sends me right of to sleep. Check all your razors and your guns. We're going to be be arrested when the wagon comes. I want a pig foot, oh, and a bottle of beer. Send me, 'cause I don't care. Stay, 'cause I don't care.
GROSS: That sounds really terrific.
BAKER: Yeah.
GROSS: Was Bessie Smith a big influence on you?
BAKER: No. I - well, let's say singers from that era did, you know? And then my mom and my grandmom, they were all gospel singers in church. So naturally, I grew up in church, you know, that's where most of us come from, you know.
GROSS: LaVern Baker, I thank you very much for talking with us. It's really been fun to hear from you. Thank you.
BAKER: And I'd like to thank you very, very much, and you have a nice day.
GROSS: LaVern Baker recorded in 1991. She died in 1997 at the age of 67.
Our R&B, rockabilly and early rock 'n' roll series continues through Labor Day. If you'd like to hear parts of the series you missed, including our interviews with Scotty Moore, Elvis Presley's guitarist, Carl Perkins, who wrote and made the first recording of "Blue Suede Shoes," Johnny Cash and singer Etta James, check out our podcast. You'll find lots of interviews. And to find out what's happening behind the scenes of our show, get our producers' recommendations for what to watch, read and listen to, subscribe to our free newsletter at whyy.org/freshair.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAY CHARLES' "MUSIC, MUSIC, MUSIC")
GROSS: FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Briger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Anna Bauman and John Sheehan. Special thanks to Heidi Saman for her work on today's show. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Susan Nyakundi directed today's show. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Goss.
(SOUNDBITE OF RAY CHARLES' "MUSIC, MUSIC, MUSIC") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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