STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We've been hearing about the shutdown from Democrats and Republicans on the program. And today, it's Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, who represents a lot of federal employees. Senator, welcome back.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Steve, good to be with you.
INSKEEP: OK. So you have these competing bills. Democrats and Republicans didn't agree on paying all federal workers, which was your idea, but you did agree on paying people who are working currently. Why didn't you vote for that?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, Steve, I should first say that the best way to reopen the government is for President Trump to negotiate with Democrats so that we can get the government up and running. My proposal is based on the idea that no federal employee should be punished for a shutdown that they have nothing to do with. What Senator Johnson proposed was to pay those federal employees who Donald Trump has decided to keep on the job. If you think about it, that gives President Trump the sole power to decide who stays on the job and who gets paid. So it essentially would allow him to keep parts of the government that he doesn't like shut down forever and keep those parts of the government he likes going, like, for example, ICE. And that would give him zero incentive to actually end the shutdown. So my proposal and the Democratic proposal was no federal employee should be punished for something that they have nothing to do with.
INSKEEP: Got it. Let me ask about what happens next. SNAP benefits expire in a few days, as we've been reporting. People have to sign up for Obamacare in a few days, and the subsidies aren't going to be there. What do you foresee politically as the endgame here, Senator?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, what we see is Donald Trump finally deciding, you know, not only to negotiate, you know, in the Middle East and not only to negotiate with Vladimir Putin but actually being willing to sit down to negotiate opening the government so not only can the government provide services to the American people, but we can also address this huge spike in health care costs that is upon us that people...
INSKEEP: But do you think that the increasing pain that people feel will cause the president to negotiate with you in the way that you want?
VAN HOLLEN: I think it's the fact that people are now getting these notices, seeing their premiums and health care costs doubling and tripling that will bring the president to the table. I mean, you already see Republicans calling upon the president to work on this issue. He should work on this issue. They left this ticking time bomb in place on people's health care costs that's going to explode. So, you know, the question is, why won't Donald Trump negotiate an end of the shutdown? When he's, you know, spending $20 billion to bail out his pal in Argentina, asking the Justice Department to pay him $230 million for his legal bills, why won't he just sit down to find a way to end the shutdown?
INSKEEP: I'll just note before we move on, you mentioned the ticking time bomb. Republicans will point out that a Democratic Congress passed the Obamacare subsidies with an expiration date. But I want to move on to one other thing, and that is, because you're on the Foreign Affairs Committee, gives you an interest in what the U.S. military does. You've also got a lot of constituents who are in the military. And NPR has obtained a memo, as others have, from Secretary Pete Hegseth's office telling the military to stop communicating so much with Congress, stop telling you so much information. Here's a quote - "unauthorized engagements with Congress, no matter how well-intentioned, may undermine department-wide priorities." What do you make of that, Senator?
VAN HOLLEN: Steve, very quickly, I would say that Republicans extended tax cuts for billionaires permanently. The one tax cut they let lapse was the one that allows middle-class families to afford their health care.
INSKEEP: OK, got it. Go on.
VAN HOLLEN: Look; this is part of a pattern of the Trump administration trying to shut down information, facts to the public. We already saw Secretary Hegseth say to journalists that they had to essentially sign up for a self-censorship agreement. I'm glad to see so many journalists in the media reject that. You're seeing the same kind of thing now, trying to limit information going to Congress, even as the administration's engaged in this sort of lawless activities with respect to, you know, blowing boats out of the water. What Pete Hegseth wants to do is to shut down information.
INSKEEP: Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Thanks so much. I really appreciate you taking the time this morning.
VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you, Steve. Thanks. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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