SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
There are no SNAP food benefits for millions of Americans today for the first time since the country's largest anti-hunger program began six decades ago. On Friday, two federal judges said the pause was likely to be unlawful. President Trump says he's open to keeping SNAP going despite the government shutdown, but it is not clear how or when that might happen. NPR's Jennifer Ludden joins us. Jennifer, thanks for being with us.
JENNIFER LUDDEN, BYLINE: Hi there.
SIMON: Trump administration says there's just no money available to fund SNAP. What did both of the federal judges say about that?
LUDDEN: Well, they said Congress has provided more than $5 billion in emergency funds, and it's for exactly this kind of situation. They rejected the administration's argument that it cannot legally use that. They said it not only can but must. In Rhode Island, Judge John McConnell Jr. called for this to happen as soon as possible. The other judge, Indira Talwani in Boston, said officials could also tap more money from customs revenue, but she left that decision up to them. Both judges gave the administration until Monday to come back with a plan for how it will proceed.
SIMON: But does this mean that people who count on this assistance might see it sometime soon?
LUDDEN: That is a good question. And the only answer right now is we really don't know. I mean, first, will the administration appeal? And second, if they agree to only tap the contingency funds, that falls well short of SNAP's November budget, which is $9 billion. So the people would not get the full amount they qualify for. And in that case, the administration has said, you know, calculating partial payments is a logistical nightmare that could take time, especially in the middle of a shutdown. And then, as for President Trump, a few hours after these rulings, he addressed them in a social media post. He said he's instructed his lawyers to clarify with the court how they can legally fund SNAP. And if they do, he said, it will be my honor to provide funding just like I did with the military and law enforcement pay.
SIMON: If the administration decides to pay people at least some part of their regular SNAP food benefits, how would that break down? How would it work?
LUDDEN: We really don't know. Again, this has not happened before. I've not seen a public plan for how to do it. I did speak, though, with an Agriculture Department employee who works on SNAP, and they agreed it would be challenging and even beyond logistics. This person asked me not to use their name for fear of retribution, and also, they're not authorized to speak with media. But they said, for one thing, if you have partial funding, do you give it only to the most needy? Or do you give people, you know, half their regular amount, maybe three-quarters, and states would want to say in that. But also, how do you divide partial funding among states? The employee wondered if this administration might decide to give some states more SNAP money than others.
SIMON: And, Jennifer, where does this leave the millions of people who aren't getting federal food aid beginning today?
LUDDEN: Scott, it leaves them in need. You know, it is a lot of money that is disappearing from people's food budgets. We don't know for how long. Food policy experts say no amount of amping up food banks can come anywhere close to making up this difference, but, of course, it does help, and we see more states and cities shifting money for it. Soon after yesterday's rulings, Oklahoma's governor announced a vote to send a million dollars a week to food banks for SNAP recipients for up to seven weeks, if needed.
SIMON: NPR's Jennifer Ludden. Thanks so much.
LUDDEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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