GLYNN WASHINGTON, HOST:
Now then, we're going to kick off our "Infamous" episode in Scotland, where one Gavin Bain spoke to our own Julia DeWitt. SNAP JUDGMENT.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
GAVIN BAIN: Can I swear?
JULIA DEWITT, BYLINE: Yes (laughter). We'll have to bleep it, so don't overdo it. But yeah, if you feel - you know, if you feel so moved.
BAIN: Oh, OK, bleep it. You're talking to a Scottish person (laughter). That's almost not in my control.
DEWITT: Do you want to just go ahead and introduce yourself, Gavin?
BAIN: Yeah. I'm Gavin Bain, also known as Brains McLoud. I'm one half of Silibil N' Brains. I started rapping when I was a little kid. The first song I ever memorized was Snow's "Informa." (Singing) Informa... (Laughter) You know, I don't even know how he says it. But I memorized that when I was, like, a real small kid. So I've always been in love with rap.
The first day of college, I see this kid at the gates. He's rocking the baggiest jeans, Ramones T-shirt, painted black fingernails. And his hair's braided. He's the coolest human that I've ever seen. And that was Bill, who I would come to known as Silibil or Sili (ph). We liked pretty much all the same things, so we decided to form this rap group. We weren't good. But we knew we were going to get good. And so we spent the next two years just mastering every discipline of rap, developing our own style, which was this humorous, multi-syllable battle rap style.
(SOUNDBITE OF UNIDENTIFIED SONG)
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing, unintelligible).
BAIN: Then Eminem broke in '98. As Eminem's success grew, everyone that heard us would start saying, hey, you guys sound like Eminem.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MY NAME IS")
EMINEM: (Singing) Hi, my name is - what? My name is...
BAIN: And after a while, we kind of took that as a compliment.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MY NAME IS")
EMINEM: (Singing) Slim Shady.
BAIN: We see this advertisement on this music site that just reads, are you the next Eminem? I told the guys, and we just smirked. And we were like, we got this (laughter). You know, we got this (laughter) 'cause everyone says we are. By that point, my sister was living in London. So we took the 13-hour bus journey down to her place, crashed on the floor. And when we got there, man, the place was packed. And there was a queue of Eminem impersonators going around the block, like, twice.
We're seeing the faces of people coming out of the room just distraught. When we got in, we approached the X-spot awkwardly and stood there in front of three A&Rs, the guys who go out and scout the talent. They were just sitting there with blank faces. We must have been rapping for about 30 seconds before I noticed two of the A&Rs whispering to themselves. And it seemed like they were trying to hold back the laughter. And when one of them cracked...
(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)
BAIN: Within seconds, it felt like the room was filled with laughing gas. And one of the guys was like, oh, no, please, please stop. You're killing me. This is hilarious. You know, are you serious? Like, who put you up to this? Did Steve put you up to this? Did Steve put you up to this? Scottish rap, man, come on. This is ridiculous. The older A&R, who had been quiet to this point, leans forward and says, trust me. You will never make it. Come on, man, don't you watch MTV? Have you never listened to radio? They're never going to let Scottish rap on Radio One. I'm sorry, but you sound like the rapping Proclaimers to me.
That was the blow that I will just never forget. And I was getting real desperate, you know? I had been kicked out of art college. (Laughter) I needed cash. Like, I had a mountain of bills barricading the front door from debt collectors who were keen on coming in and taking all my money.
One night, I'm just lying on my bed. I can hear the '80s film, the Michael J. Fox film, "Secret Of My Success," is on TV. What it's about - it's like a small-town boy goes to the city and makes his way to the top of a company by becoming someone else. I'm just sitting, listening there, moving my lips along with the film. And I just thought, that's it. If me being me is a problem, I'll just be not me. If they want another Eminem, I will just give them that. So I had to become American. I got the accent good enough, just to record. Bill took a little bit of convincing, but when he heard the recorded, American version of the song "Shut Yo Mouth," I could tell he just knew. It was like, this sounds real now.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SHUT YO MOUTH")
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing) All the ladies bow down.
BAIN: This plan is gold.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SHUT YO MOUTH")
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing) Now we ain't foul-mouthed twins who dressed like we didn't know what style's in. You know, baggy pants (unintelligible) people stare like I'm a UFO, hair all up...
BAIN: The plan was we'd get a record deal. We'd make a number one hit record. We'd go on TV, come clean about being Scottish the whole time and prove that the system's flawed and that only the pretty and only the crazy and only the marketable get a chance in this world. And we set about - (laughter) - we set about becoming - we set about becoming American.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SHUT YO MOUTH")
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing) Shut yo mouth.
BAIN: I would do everything in the American accent. I would talk to my girlfriend in the accent. And she thought that was insane, especially when I spoke in the voice during sex (laughter). The voice in my head that I was hearing would be in the accent. I can't really do all the voices now. But, like, I mean, you imagine the kind of doofus, American cool character. So I was like - you talk out of the back of your throat like, (changing voice) yeah, dude, like, totally, like... You know, like you talk like Keanu Reeves - like, (imitating Keanu Reeves) no way.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BILL & TED'S BOGUS JOURNEY")
KEANU REEVES: (As Ted) No way.
WILLIAM SADLER: (As Grim Reaper) Yes way.
BAIN: We're sitting down in a bar in Dundee, scribbling out a plan to become two bad-ass, Californian rappers like Eminem - but more exaggerated, blown out of proportion. We actually made ourselves a part of Eminem's Californian crew. We were the supremely confident, cocky but lovable, Californian wild boys, Silibil N' Brains. And we were not going to take no for an answer. But it wasn't until we actually heard there was this massive showcase happening in Madame Jojo's in Soho, in London...
(SOUNDBITE OF TELEPHONE RINGING)
BAIN: We called up the promoter and let him know what was going down. It kind of went something like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Hello?
BAIN: Yeah, we're Eminem's boys. We're from Cali. We're in town for the weekend. You know, we want to do a show. Now, if you've got a prime slot, then you're in luck, Buddy 'cause - well, how much do you pay?
And the guy's like...
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Pay? This is an industry showcase.
BAIN: OK, no money, OK. Well, look, here's what we're going to do. You put us on prime. You take care of our travel. And you make sure we've got free booze all night, and you've got a deal, OK?
And this guy's just on the other end of the phone like...
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What?
BAIN: Yeah, OK... Yeah, OK, we're on. See you Friday, turkey.
(Laughter). I hung up on the guy, you know. I was like, I think we have a 9 p.m. slot. We just - and we just turned up. They called our names, and we just fist-bumped each other. And that was it. We jumped into the characters. And we were like, let's give these people something they've never seen before.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I PLAY WITH MYSELF")
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing) I play with myself everywhere I go. Yeah, I play with myself...
BAIN: We stormed on stage. We started chasing each other around the stage with props, fake knives, one of us wearing a bra.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I PLAY WITH MYSELF")
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing) Someone stop me. They say it's bad for your eyes. I'm half-blind...
BAIN: Each song just a crazy concept with an obscene stage show that kind of resembled, like, a night at the theater if you were on shrooms.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I PLAY WITH MYSELF")
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing) Four, three, two. And, yo, I laugh, I treat my face with a pen knife. Porno mag and a six-pack, that's my sex life. Even deaf guys say I'm very tight. And Stevie Wonder said I'm one hell of sight.
BAIN: We came off stage that night, and that performance never stopped. The characters we were that night never stopped for two years. We went from actively seeking and chasing management to having the biggest guys in the industry calling us.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I PLAY WITH MYSELF")
SILIBIL N' BRAINS: (Singing) Foul kids here to knock you out with, so throw your hands up like you being surrounded. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BAIN: We signed to the biggest manager -- Jonathan Shalit. and I remember sitting there, trying to sign like it's no big deal, like I forgot who was on the line and I what's on the line. And I'm just like, look, look, Johnny, John John, John John McClane, we don't get out of bed for less than 70 grand. And he just says, deal. And I'm like, what? I dropped the phone. I'm just freaking out. I'm like, why did I say 70? I could have said a hundred, you know?
I think at that point you realize that accents weren't actually that good. They were OK. They weren't actually that good. That's just how good at acting the part we were. Now we had financial backing from a real force in the industry. And this was on. All of a sudden, our plan wasn't even looking crazy anymore. We started living the dream. We were recording every day, doing shows, touring, building a fan base, sleeping with the hottest women on the planet.
One morning, we were coming back off this hellish tour. And as soon as my head hit the pillow, we get this phone call from our management. He was like, dude, good news and bad news. He's like the bad news is you're not coming off tour. And I'm about to blow up at him. And he's, like, wait, wait, wait, the good news is you're going on the road with your very best friends, D12. You're going to get to hook up with Eminem and Proof. And he's so excited. I can tell he's, like, dying with excitement, you know? I was like, oh my God. I'm dying, you know? I'm dying with anxiety here. And he's like the tour starts tonight - bus going to come pick you up in three hours. Get some rest. I just dropped the phone. I'm just like, we're done for. That's it. We get to the venue, and we're trying to act all normal. But I've never been this nervous. As we got to the stage, they were onstage sound checking.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAIN: And what our team's like, dude, there's your boy Proof, man. You know, how's it going? And they finished. And they were heading our way. We were right at the edge of the stage. And at that point, we're at the mercy of the gods. And we had no other option but to do what we always did, which was just improvise. We just get all loud, and we're like, oh, what's up, Proof? You know, (unintelligible). (Laughter) you know, we're just like, what's it be like, what's it be like, two years? Warped Tour, right? San Diego, yeah. Thank God they played along. Or they're maybe just nice people and, you know, didn't want to turn around and be like, who are you guys?
DEWITT: Well, Gavin, really quick, can we stop really quick here? What about the people that, you know could have potentially hurt? 'Cause the thing about lying is it can advance your career. But it also potentially puts other people's trust in you - it compromises that, right? Like...
BAIN: Come on, man, it's the survival of the fittest out here, you know? And remember, we weren't trying to make it happen for fans or to release this act to the world and sell millions of records. We were trying to get into the industry, make a big bang and then come clean, you know, and make a point. But we just got completely caught up with the whole fun of the life. To us, everything had to be louder, you know? We had to look like we were on personality steroids. You become, like, you with all the levels put up. It's almost like you can feel the inside of you going (unintelligible), you know? It's like you be (unintelligible). You become the monster all of a sudden.
My girlfriend broke up with me because she came down and visited, and she just didn't like what she saw. She's was like, I hate this guy. And I kind of had to break character after one night. And I was kind of like, it's me, it's me. I'm still me, you know? I'm just playing the guy, you know? And she couldn't get it. She was like, no, no, no. You love that guy. You're like - you're him. You love this guy. I wasn't until that point. But I kind of started to lose my way after that.
As it gradually went on, it was just - it was constant paranoia. Like, oh my God, he knew. We're done for. We're done for. This is totally not going to work - so constantly breaking ourselves down. And when the fun dried up and we attempted to get down to business, it became apparent that we were losing windows to release. Before long, it's two years. And everyone's going, why are these guys not in the charts? Why is this not released? Like, what's - who's dropping the ball? So we had a meeting set up, and this guy was no joke. He's got a little sticky note that someone's given him of negatives, of reasons that we should be dropped, right? And he starts reading them out. You guys have missed another release window. That's a few now. You refuse to censor your songs. You have a song called [expletive], which is banned. And his face is just wincing in disgust with everything he reads out. It was really funny that the things that we created that got us in there were the very things that, slowly but surely, Sony tried to change.
That was it. We were just shelved with no apparent release date. Bill and I's relationship just got dangerous. And we blamed each other perennially. And that kind of pent-up frustration - that just boiled. One day, we had this crazy, crazy, crazy fight - one of those fights that, you know, you just don't come back from. And the next morning, he left. The things I went through after that were crazy. They were hellish. I was in the darkest point of my life. I'd found confidence. And you would've thought, wow, OK, this person should be able to walk through walls now. But then the bubble burst. And I start to believe that that only happened because I was playing the character.
So all of a sudden, I was scared to go back to the boy who was beaten at school, and he was a fish at war. And I didn't want to be that guy anymore. I didn't want to go back and be that guy and then have the failure weighing me down. So I was still in the character because I didn't know who to go and be again. Then my friend - a close friend Ivan - got a rare form of cancer. Ivan actually knew who I really was. Myself and a friend threw a benefit concert to raise money for his treatment. And it would be the return of Brains, the Californian rapper, you know? And I knew I could fill a room of fans and industry people and make some decent money for Ivan's treatment.
And then it came at the night of the gig. My new band was just about to go on and do our first performance. And I remember hearing that Ivan - he wasn't going to make it. I had this real problem. My band had just walked on stage. And I'm like - I can't stop crying. And I'm frozen at the side of the stage. My band members are playing a song. They're just going to improvise and like, why is he not on stage?
I turn my friend Rob, and I'm just like, man, dude, who am I? Who am I going to be? And he said, just be who Ivan knows. Just cut all this crap. Be you. I stepped on stage, and I just said, I'm Gavin Bain. I'm not Brains McLoud. I'm Scottish.
I felt like there was this unbelievable cage I was dragging around with me everywhere. And I just felt like, at that point, that I just dropped the cage. I did a kind of moment of silence for Ivan, which was the dumbest thing to do. And I think someone shouted out, talk again. Say something (laughter) Do you know what I mean? And I was like - when I came off stage, some girls came up and slapped me. Some people came up and was like, after everything we've been through, you'd do this to me? You've been in my mother's house. You know, like, stupid - like, so? One of my close friends, Dan, who I loved from Sony came up and was like, what? This is the greatest thing that I've ever been a part of. I wasn't really caring about the bad or the negative. I'm glad it happened. If I'm being told that we would never make it, we've won.
DEWITT: But it sounds like that sort of pushed you over the edge a little bit.
BAIN: It did. But, you know, you have experience the edge. You know, I would never have got to this point if I didn't.
DEWITT: And you had to lie extensively to do it, you know, which isn't...
BAIN: As soon as you hear the word lie, you think we were lying to people. But that's not really - it really wasn't like that. We weren't lying to people. Even the people that we lie straight to their faces never walked away thinking, oh, man, I can't believe I invested time in those - no, it wasn't like that. It was like we're here to have the most fun. And you're going to love us. You're going to absolutely love us. We're going to entertain you nonstop.
DEWITT: But you are not American, for example. That's, like, not an ambiguous fact.
BAIN: Of course. But I would like to consider it like changing reality. Like, so something where I would say something crazy that I wanted to achieve when I hadn't achieve it yet. And I would tell people I'd achieved it because it would create the pressure that I had to then go and achievement it to the point where then I would just go an achieve it. I've done my things my whole life that way. Like, you're going to tour with Eminem. And boom, we end up touring with D12. You know, it's like setting these big things that you need to - because you're going to look stupid if you don't.
DEWITT: But don't you want to just get famous on exactly what you are?
BAIN: Well, yeah. And that's kind of exactly what I did. Because I'm a great actor.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
WASHINGTON: Big thanks to Gavin for speaking with the SNAP. Now, Gavin Bain - he is still at it, ladies and gentlemen. But he's back to rapping in a Scottish accent. You can find all 10 - yes, 10 albums that he's released without any help from a big label but an Apple Store. And we'll have a link at snapjudgment.org. That piece was produced by Julia DeWitt with sound design by Renzo Gorrio.
Now in just a moment, the strangest fashion advice you'll ever hear and one family's shocking secret when SNAP JUDGMENT - the "Infamous" episode returns. Stay tuned. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.